Sunday, June 17, 2007

Why Digby's Insightful Blog is Required Reading at the Academy

From a very interesting piece on immigration titled "They are Different from us."

This is essentially a made up crisis by people like Lou Dobbs and talk radio show gasbags to exploit the insecurities of certain Americans by creating the illusion that the fact they are losing ground economically is caused as much by illegal immigrants doing day labor as the total abandonment of the manufacturing base by big business.


Steve said...

The point is you don't hear Dobbs and all these other gas bags blasting American Business for exploiting this situation to begin with.

Like in, "American Business knows $5 an hour is a lot of money compared to what these people face in Mexico. These guys know this and exploit it to their full advantage. They know Americans are going to say $5 an hour? How the hell am I supposed to raise my family and pay the bills on that?"

3:24 PM  
shrimplate said...

The Cantarell oil field is widely known to be in decline. Mexico's economy is likely to decline with it. Then we will probably see even more movement across our southern border.

9:21 PM  
Jim said...

All I can say is that the quote and the related article is nonsense. The problem has nothing to do with day labor (or racism). If they were working here for a day or a week even, then going home there would be no issue (and they could come here legally NAFAT has a quota less TN visa system A list of qualified professions is here: ). The problem is that they stay here. They don't want to become citizens; they just don't want to be thrown back over the border. We do not have millions of people swarming over the border to become Americans, they are just swarming over to get jobs and sponge off of the American infrastructure. They don't want to learn the language, and they don't want to absorb American culture and melt in. I'd be happy to let them in should they have some desire to follow the rules. They don't. These aren't people that followed the rules and are complaining about the wait time. They jumped the fence and didn't get caught.

We have plenty of people waiting to do the jobs that the illegals are doing (and at the same wages- the fall river raid had all those jobs (275) filled the next day at the same wages). Immigration policy should be set at whatever the needs of the receiving country are. Not just because they successfully hopped the fence. Anyone here of any companies demanding a supply of laborers? If they did, and we didn't have a supply of immigrants handy, would those jobs just go unfilled? I think not. We definitely need to crack down on any company hiring illegal immigrants. The penalty should be so severe it would knock them out of business (say 95% gross profits). Do we have the capacity to absorb millions of people? Sure! But they have to be willing (as have those mass immigrations of the past) to become American.

When you parade down the streets with Mexican flags(something that you cannot do in Mexico with an American flag as an immigrant) and demand that we speak to you in Spanish (again something that can't be done in Mexico) you aren't going to win many amnesty supporters.

10:32 AM  
¡El Gato Negro! said...

...and jim comes through to prove jour point for joo, weeth a huge screed full of fear-fueled nonsense.

He threw een everytheeng except the "Leprosy" canard.

For thees, I shall bathe at heem, dissmissively.

bathe, bathe

11:24 AM  
Metro said...

Hey Jim:

I agree: if they don't want to be citizens, throw them out.

But first, you have to find out if that's true. Throw it wide open and offer them the chance to become legal US residents and taxpayers. If they don't, then send La Migra after 'em.

But since it's illegal most places to treat and pay a US citizen the way "illegals" get treated, don't be surprised if your next trip to Wal-Mart gets more expensive as a consequence.

The anti-immigration arguments seem, in the main, to be very racist. This is especially seen in how hard Fox News et al have to work to prop up a Mexican face for the 'anti-' argument.

The path to legalization and citizenship stands a far better chance of helping deal with the "problem". Which isn't really a problem, it's just demographics.

On the other hand, you could adopt the position that all immigrants oughta go back where they came from.

I'm sure the Native Americans'd thank you.

11:34 AM  
PTCruiser said...

Jim sounds like he's related to Lee Rodgers and Melanie Morgan. Secret love-child perhaps? Hmmm.

4:12 PM  
Steve said...

Pursuit of money has replaced the pursuit of excellence. Thats another BIG part of the problem thats been omitted from the equation.

6:10 PM  
Rich said...

Jim, isn't it true that our gov't wrecks both economies with 'free' trade? I heard that number of people coming in is about the same as our gov't displaced by forcing our heavily subsidized frankencorn on Mexico, which put many Mexican farmers to leave their land.

It seems to me that is the intentional policy of corrupt elites, and that blaming the poor from banana republics is illogical.

12:31 AM  
Jim said...

Metro- they already have the chance to become legal citizens. It is wide open. They just have to wait in line with the rest of the immigrants that want to come in. However they are already here are are not even trying to fit in. If the only reason that the arguments are racist is because they are anti-Mexican then you are somehow missing the fact that most of the illegal immigrants are coming from Mexico. While I am sure there might be some Canadian illegals coming down they are in far far fewer numbers. To your point about immigrants going home, no-one said anything about immigrants going home, the issue is that of rewarding those that refused to become immigrants. An immigrant is someone that has chosen to follow the path to immigration. If you just cross over the border you’re not an immigrant you’re a trespasser.

Rich- I’m not sure about the effects of NAFTA. I didn’t like it then and I haven’t heard anything good about it since. As far as corn goes, because of the huge demand for corn, agave farmers are burning their fields to grow corn because of the higher price of corn crops (see link below). I don’t have any info as to whether in the past the situation was different however it shows 2 things: a- Mexican farms are just bugging out to pick American crops, they are smart enough to chose another crop, b- they seem to have a grasp on the marketplace. I don’t blame the poor, except they seem to refuse to do anything about they fact that their own country is unwilling to change in order to help them and instead tells them to get out and helpfully provides maps around US border stations. Maybe we should do likewise and send our poor and or homeless to Mexico,they do have some nice beaches.

Corn link-

12:03 PM  
Rich said...

alt corn link:
Migration and Corn

"It’s obvious. We want to stem the flow of illegal immigrants, we must support real HUMAN development south of the border. Real economic as well as political democracy in Mexico and beyond"
...wanna know more about 'A Game As Old As Empire'?

The Reign of the Tyrants is at Hand

7:20 PM  
Rich said...

hey spocko.

China corners vitamin market!

7:47 PM  
Rich said...

more corn:
Nafta Should Have Stopped Illegal Immigration, Right?

7:51 PM  
Jim said...

Rich, the last link you posted was great. It does a great job of explaining that the problems caused by NAFTA are due the failings of the mexican govt and people (can't make money off corn- screw it! I'm leaving everything I own and running off to the US!) The article also implies that at least one side effect was supposed to be human development. Looks like nafta was bad for the US but even worse for mexico since their govt bailed out on them.

8:43 AM  
Rich said...

Are you really surprised that the Mexico government has proven corrupt or incompetent?

How about the US gov't? Do you think they are corrupt to let that, Enron, and other billions of dollars go wasted on schemes (the Iraq war is an example of Naomi Klein's 'disaster capitalism'). Or are we corrupt too?

It can't be the latter because we have the best democracy money can buy.

7:30 PM  
Jim said...

Rich, of course our government is corrupt and incompetent about things (Enron being a bad example since they were a private company). That's why the constitution is mostly about what the government can't do. Sadly the left in this country feels we need more goverment intervention, not less. We however can't be respsible for the failings of any other government but our own.

7:43 AM  

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